Glimpse of Wing Chun Do/DeMile Defensive Tactics

[Michael Banaag]

Adam asked me if I had some footage that I could share that would give people a glimpse of WCD.

I'm not very tech savvy so I don't know how to put up the footage that I have directly on my computer to this forum, so I just have this link that shows my friend/student doing technique on me (I'm in blue playing the role of an attacker) from one of our training sessions, and thought that it's good enough to show to give an idea; though he's still working on certain things since he's more of the type of person that needs self-defense - he's not really a martial artist, he's really passive, never gets angry, and not very aggressive...nicest guy in the world! So he doesn't have the forward projection yet that we try to cultivate, but he's getting there.

I will put footage up of myself in the future (though I don't consider myself the best representative...but maybe my standards for myself are too high) as soon as I can get a partner and a camera man available a the same time. Hopefully this weekend.

Anyway. Here you go:

http://structuralselfdefenseclub.blogspot.com/2010/01/glimpse-of-what-we-do.html

[Adam]

Thanks for posting Micheal ,

   simple direct core / premise - excellent starting point,  could develop far fr there. How long have your friend been at it ? 

[Jeff Meadows]

I liked it  I recognize what I am seeing from my short time in WCD. But never seen it applied with pads:) That was the best part. Was it clean? Nope but it is my opnion that is a great way to train. But anyone who has been paying attention to my posts see me go on about pading up...lol.. I have been waiting for someone to say shut up!

Nice work! Your student is coming along well.

I greatly look forward to see you in action Michael. I cant wait!

Yours in Fellowship,
Jeff

[Michael Banaag]

Thanks Adam! Thanks Jeff!

I forgot that this was Valentines weekend (luckily I remembered in time to get my wife something..whew!). So couldn't film anything. Hopefully this week.

Adam - He's been training more focused and seriously with me since maybe summer 06? But had originally started 8 years ago. But he'll be the first to admit he's not an athletic person, and his learning curve isn't the greatest.

Jeff - glad you liked the pad training. It has it's plus and minuses. I find that it helps with realism from the stand point that I don't feel like the percentage of them holding back on me when they are attacking me is not as bad compared with me with no head gear on. When I have no headgear on, sometimes I wonder if their attack would've gone in and it didn't because they held back. Plus the obvious safety reasons for both parties.

I also noticed the difference between training with someone with pads on who is not experience in fighting compared to one who is. Those with no fight experience will not react to being hit. When they throw counters, even after being pummeled 3 or 4 times cleanly, they punch back as if they've never been hit; with 100% energy/power. Those who have been in fights react more realistically; they move when hit, they try to evade, their counters are more frantic and less powerful, They don't just sit there in a prone position like a statue "taking it" like an unexperienced person does. It's more alive with someone with experience, whereas one without it feels more like an exercise.

But what good would it be to hit the unexperienced with no gear on just to instill the realistic reaction if they go away from the experience never wanting to train again? That's something I'm still trying to figure out how to solve for the unexperienced.

It's a double edged sword.

Thanks for the compliments, though!
 

[swimming tiger]

Michael,

Awesome man, looks like good stuff. What kind of headgear do you use?

                                                                    Regards,
                                                                                    Jo

[Adam]

Micheal , I agree it is a double edge sword .

with the idea of balance between realistic contact vs  keeping a safety margin in training :

all options seems to have their strenghts and weakness

1 no contact pros : allows you to go full power without pulling punches and kicks
                   cons : unrealistic reaction form the other guy and lack of accuracy since there's no 
                            Contact 

2 typical  sparring gear on the market
- pro : allows the training of accuracy , answering the question " did I really get him?"
- Con : does not allow full power , all out attacks without risking concussions , serious injures to the neck ,    spinal chord , knees and groin and therefore it forces the trainee to get the bad habit of pulling their shots ( assuming the guy is not a jerk and purpose hurt his training partners)

3 "bullet man" type of  suit
  - pro  : they can  take full on  shots to most areas with safety, full power and contact
  - con : the bullet man is so damm big that the attacker can hard move with any realistic degree of agility , speed or explosiveness 

I sometimes  think that the best one can do is combine all these equipment

1 sparring gear allowing light contact to test for accuracy , timing but unfornately cant test stopping power , so combine it with a few rounds with the:
2 bullet man to test stopping power

if one lack funding for proper equipment one can 

1 train no contact for the experience of how it feels like to move with full speed and power agaisnt a human coming in without pulling any punches , kicks  etc 
2 then do a few rounds making contact w/o gear lightly to test accuracy

if one is a traditional martial artist
1 train without coontact or lightly then follow with
2 take challenges from outsider ( not recommend , bad experience but depending on the country , sometimes there's no choice

[Michael Banaag]

Jo - the gloves I used are some of the original Harbinger gloves for bags modified (cut out the palms bar peice) so that I could feel more. They're from way back when. If I waited a few years, or when they fall apart I'd replace them with the mma gloves they use now since it's almost the same thing. The headgear I got from an associate who I trained with years ago that runs his own brand called "Warrior-1"

Anyway, here's some of that footage I promised. Like i said, I DO NOT consider myself "THE' representative of what my instructor James DeMile teaches. I'm no where as good as him (especially when he was in his prime and not injured), or my senior and good friend Ron Ogi, but as with any martial art/self-defense training...it's a never ending process of refinement and trying to get better....which I'm always striving to do. Plus, when a friend like Adam asks for a favor like this I try to ablige (did i spell that word right?)


Warm-ups
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqJDEdK1jNQ

Semi-applied scenario training
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AuWvQQlnsM

[Adam]

Thanks for posting....   good  stuff !

PS Micheal ,  Please read the  " instructor" announcement thread

[Jeff Meadows]

 Nice Michael. Good stuff. Is to bad there isnt a fully organized WCD dvd and book series. So the info is out there. There a very few kwoons in the world. Good stuff could go the way of the dinosaur same is true with NCGF.

I always like to see the two arts in action ans would like to see alot more of it. Drawing from my own experience and basic opnions on fighting it is closer along the lines of what I think what Bruce did for REAL as well as one can tell by the structure of the systems that the men behind the modern systems Bruce James and Jesse that it comes from a street fighting mentality.

Though it is my opnion that Bruce started to opt of straight blasting for the power of western punching. Though I suspect he did/would blend the 2 and why wouldnt ya its like having two calibers in your gun cabinet say like 9 mm and . 45 cal. They both have there philosophy of use why not use em both?


I have always wondered what Less straight blast where like. Some have said they had hit harder than his boxing punches. Which I highly doubt but I am still and always will be curious. William Cheung has always mantained the straight blast was harder.


Anyways thanks Michael and if ya feel generous again post more and Ill keep an eye on your blog.Yours in fellowship,
Jeff

[Michael Banaag]

Thanks guys! Definitely somethings I still need work on, but glad you liked it.

Jeff - DeMile is planning on releasing a Chi Sao DVD sometime this year. Which apparently will be followed up by Rocco's Chi Sao series (but I don't know when it will be released or the details of Rocco's stuff).

As for the punching, obviously all we can do is speculate since none of us were really there, and Bruce was known for doing/stressing different things with different people and eras. I also cannot really comment on straight blasting as I've found it to be defined differently between a Wing Chun practioner and a JKD man, and even defined by some as just punching and moving straight in rapid fire.  I can say that by our definition we do not view our punches as straight blasts, or centerline punching. We call our punches Powerline Punches (which I'm hoping you were able to be exposed to with the little time you were at Rocco's). It's not a Centerline Punch because the path that the hand travels does not start from the Centerline and stay on it throughout it's "flight".

It's called a Powerline because it allows for maximum transfer of energy with minimal kinetic output. In other words it's not reliant on strength (but if you're strong it helps create more power). It's really defined by the angle, or line of attack, that the hand travels during its "flight", as well as the particular alignment of the knuckle, wrist and forearm so that you use your muscular/skeletal structure to transfer energy for damage, as well as, I guess the best way to say it is, make it easier to dissappate the returning shock forces that occurs between two objects colliding (the fist and the target) to reduce the need to clinch the fist so tightly. Then of course there is the necessity of the recoil to add more power there by, for lack of a better phrase, "making it" a concussion strike. 

From what I've been told, and you can take it with a grain of salt, is that this method of striking was what Bruce and DeMile also discovered/"came up with" in DeMile's apartment while they were working on the floating, 1", 3" punch. But that doesn't really matter as much as what it feels like for YOU to punch in a powerline method or a different method. Ultimately it's what works for each one of us right?

Anyway, glad you liked it. If I put more clips I'll just be putting on my site unless Adam asks me to put it on here.

I appreciate the time.

Also in fellowship,

MB

[michaelquijano]

Michael,
I love the garage training brother!!! Really. I have my set up similar plus a bonus room in the house.

You have alot to work with and grow with. I wish you the best. For the record, Ronald Ogi is a great friend of mine. A down to earth human being, a great martial artists and very loyal to his instructors.

Plus he is a great videographer. He has tons of dvds for sale if anybody is interested. Sorry Adam, quick plug for Ron.
Thanks again,

[Adam]

Micheal , plug away lol . Actually , invite Ron here if you can  !

[Jeff Meadows]

Michael,
I love the garage training brother!!! Really. I have my set up similar plus a bonus room in the house.

You have alot to work with and grow with. I wish you the best. For the record, Ronald Ogi is a great friend of mine. A down to earth human being, a great martial artists and very loyal to his instructors.

Plus he is a great videographer. He has tons of dvds for sale if anybody is interested. Sorry Adam, quick plug for Ron.
Thanks again,

Where can we find his Dvds  .

Yours in Fellowship,
Jeff

[Michael Banaag]

Thanks, Michael. I wish I had just a little more room for equipment, but as it is that I live in a duplex and am stuck with the one car garage space. Looking forward to better weather and outdoor training.

I'll invite Ron, but he's moving more and more away from really interacting on forums because of the potential for miscommunication. So I hope it's not taken as offense if he doesn't get too involved.

Jeff, I'll ask Ron what's the best way to get a hold of him, as I don't want to disrespect his privacy and give out his email without his permission.

[Michael Banaag]

Thought I'd put up some more footage

The first one is kind of in response to Adam's newsletter on preemptive striking. I liked a lot of what he was talking about, and thought I'd share how we train it. Obviously you can build on it, but this is just the beginning stage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP_mQoL39Eo

The next vid is something that you can add on to the negotiation if someone interrupts you, or just as a separate thing. I'm having my student go slow to illustrate that it's important to give the brain an opportunity to learn how to process the information that he's receiving; in this case the interruptions to his flow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7M4u0PH6N8

[Jeff Meadows]

Very Nice Bro. Cool stuff. When you said negotiation I was puzzled for a sec. Im so used to de-esculation.

The news letters are cool. Pre- emptive striking is something of a speciality of mine if I was to have one.lol. I learned that Adam does alot more reps than me. Ill prolly do 200 to 300 a day he does like 1k. Wow. I like to use hand movements and posture to set them up as well as there own ego.  I should share this with you guys. Nothing new or innovative of course but may find it useful or fun.

Little gun shy now. friend of mind showed some of his stuff. Which is great by the way and of course there where trolls. I just wonder how folks can be so stupid. They crirized the fence, the sniper and pre- emptive striking. Whatever. And said you just need MMA for street fighting. Guys like that should get the pc taken from them.

One thing that is really cool is that I can see the improvement in your student. His distance control has increased the snap on his punches are a lot better and is over all a little more explosive. Nice Job! His WCD is pretty good. That being said my WCD is pee u but I know alot about fighting. So of course Im not coming from any real knowledge of WCD at this point in time.

Overall a positive thing Michael. Thanks.


Yours in Fellowship.
Jeff

[Adam]

Micheal B,  thanks for the clips , you are a good teacher

Jeff ,  Dont be gun shy man . in response to all this i just started a thread about it on the RBSD section , thanks for inspiring that.

adam